Wealth is not his that has it, but his that enjoys it. — Benjamin Franklin
Is the 74-year-old Roberto “Bobby” V. Ongpin guilty of illegalities or a financial genius? Alphaland/PBCom/PhilWeb boss and former Marcos-era Trade and Industry, he recently agreed to a no-holds-barred interview with the Philippine Star. The Harvard-trained Ongpin was grilled on Nov. 14 by senators on allegations he got P660 million in behest loans from the state-owned Development Bank of the Philippines (DBP), which he used to buy Philex Mining stocks for resale to Manny Pangilinan. He denied this and other accusations.
Though from a socially prominent family of Chinese immigrants, the family fortune was gone by the fifth generation and Chinese mestizo Bobby Ongpin had to go to school at the Ateneo on a scholarship. He was the youngest chairman of SGV Group and second youngest Cabinet minister of President Marcos, during which he had 22 bodyguards. His P56-billion wealth, as estimated by Forbes, is self-made, making him reputedly the ninth richest person in the Philippines.
Philippine STAR: You seemed very confident during the Senate hearing.
ROBERTO ONGPIN: My friends said I did well…
Is your wealth or net worth US$1.3 billion according to Forbes magazine?
Why should I tell you?
Is the magazine accurate?
It is nowhere near $1.3 billion, but how I wish Forbes was right.
Your 424-hectare Balesin island off the east coast of Luzon, from whom did you buy that?
No, I don’t have it, it’s actually owned by Alphaland Corporation of which I’m chairman. Do you remember Ed Tordesillas, he was my Trade Undersecretary, he used to own the island.
How did he acquire that island?
Ed used to work for Baby Ysmael and he bought it from the latter in the 1950s. The Ysmaels used to be in steel and other businesses. Ed runs a little resort there, but he didn’t have enough money to expand it. He died four or five years ago, then his family sold the island to me two years ago.
How does it compare to Boracay?
Balesin is half the size of Boracay, but also half the distance from Manila. It’s on the Pacific Ocean side, it has seven kilometers of beautiful beachfront.
Is it true what I heard, that you own a castle or a vineyard in Europe?
What? A castle? Again, I wish I did!
I heard you own many houses?
I have 14 houses, but mostly here in Metro Manila, although I spend half my time abroad where I do a lot of business.
What about a vineyard?
No, I don’t have a vineyard.
You own a house somewhere in Italy?
My wife lives in Tuscany, Italy.
(Research showed that Ongpin owns a 500-year-old villa in Tuscany)
You travel to Europe often, I like that continent and I think Czech beer is the best in the world, not German beer.
No I disagree, Wilson, the best beer in the world is not Czech beer, but San Miguel beer. I’m a director of San Miguel, so I have to be faithful.
Are you also buying control of San Miguel as your next corporate move?
I’m just part of a consortium called Top Frontier, with Iñigo Zobel and Butch Campos, and we are shareholders in San Miguel.
So you’re not taking over or have such plans?
Ramon Ang controls San Miguel with Danding Cojuangco.
What are your opinions on Ang and the way he’s changing San Miguel?
Ramon Ang is an excellent manager and strategist, he turned it around on its head from a food and beverage company into a conglomerate involved in infrastructures and many other major industries. He’s brilliant because he thinks San Miguel already controls 95 to 98 percent of the Philippine beer market, and the only way to grow further is through population growth, so walang kuwenta (it’s futile).
So the diversified San Miguel is much better now and more profitable?
Now San Miguel is into energy, toll roads, mining and of course San Miguel controls a major share of Meralco although Manny Pangilinan has a larger share. But we also own Caticlan airport, which we’re going to develop and expand with substantial amounts of real estate. We also control MRT 7. You know the biggest subsidiary of San Miguel is Petron, and the food and beer businesses now constitute only less than 20 percent of San Miguel revenues, therefore the growth potential is tremendous.
In your controversial Philex and DBP deal, you’ve dealt with MVP. Your impressions?
MVP is a very astute businessman and very good strategist. All of them are my friends. I’ve known Manny since his Hong Kong days as an investment banker.
How did you come to acquire that building in Makati along Edsa highway, which is now Alphaland?
That was a derelict building for many years. I would see it every time I come from the airport. Once when I picked up my business partners from Ashmore Group, they asked me: “What is that abandoned building?” After I explained what it was, they said to me: “Let’s buy it.”
Who used to own it and why was it abandoned for so long? I heard the Silverios used to own it?
It was foreclosed by, I believe, PNB (Philippine National Bank), then it was auctioned off by the APT. You remember the Asset Privatization Trust?
Yes, APT used to be headed by banker David SyCip, I interviewed him just before he died, brilliant guy.
The winner of the APT auction for that building was the family of Poch Puyat and Ed Reyes, they kept it as an investment. For 25 years it was derelict.
I think the Reyes family matriarch was a sister of former Senate President Eugenio Puyat, Jr., they used to own Premiere Bank.
They’re related, I think.
By the way, is it true that you’re not on good terms with your former boss, SGV Group founder Washington Sycip?
No comment.
I also heard either Wash SyCip didn’t invite you to his birthday party or you didn’t want to attend?
Did he tell you that?
Why do you think you have done well — as SGV chairman, Marcos-era technocrat and now a billionaire?
Hard work, just hard work.
I heard you met Saddam Hussein of Iraq. What about Libya’s Moammar Gaddafi?
I was only 44 when I met Saddam. Gaddafi I did not meet.
Your great-grandfather Roman Ongpin was a supporter of the Philippine Revolution, any family tales about him?
He owned El ’82 in Binondo, it was selling painting supplies for artists. He was patriotic, he wore a barong tagalog every day.
Your late grandfather Alfonso Ongpin was a top art collector, do you collect paintings too?
No, I do not collect art.
You own Tabacalera?
No, I own it together with Shangri-La Group’s Robert Kuok.
Who are the top three business people on earth that you admire?
Gua na lang (Hokkien for “Me na lang”).
Since you’re director of Shangri-La, I presume you admire Kuok of Malaysia?
Yes, Robert Kuok is very much a business visionary and a true believer in China. He was the first overseas Chinese to put in so much investment in China when other tycoons were not yet around. He put in US$150 million in China in 1979.
How old is Robert Kuok?
He just turned 88.
He’s the same age as Singapore’s Lee Kuan Yew.
They were classmates before.
What is the secret to his good health?
Hard work.
How did you become a friend and trusted adviser of Robert Kuok?
I first met him in 1970 in Kuala Lumpur, when I was setting up an SGV office there.
I read that Robert Kuok is a top capitalist in Malaysia, while one brother of his was a communist rebel killed by the government?
His second brother William was a communist revolutionary killed by the British in the jungles of Malaysia.
Any other impressions of Robert Kuok?
He’s very close to his mother.
Any impressions on some Philippine tycoons?
John Gokongwei Jr. is very well-read, unquestionably smart. He’s probably one of the few self-made tycoons who understand derivatives. Gokongwei studies. Henry Sy is also admirable, he’s got very good instincts and is very hardworking.
Another famous person I heard linked to your name was the late Anna Nicole Smith, I heard you’re a playboy and had an affair or fling with her?
Who told you that? Why are you asking that kind of question, are you Ricky Lo?
So you had a fling with Anna Nicole Smith?
I have two claims to fame. I’m the only person I know who met Saddam Hussein three times and who also knew Anna Nicole Smith when she was 18.
Where did you meet her?
In Houston, Texas.
When was this and how did you meet her?
It was in the late 1980s, after my government stint. My friend Tony Fung and I went there. There was the REIT (real estate investment trust) crash in Houston, Texas in the late 1980s, so many apartment buildings were for sale then, and Anna Nicole Smith was one of our rental agents.
So Anna Nicole Smith became your mistress, or girlfriend?
No (smiles), hit and run only.
Was she already into showbiz?
She was totally ordinary then, not yet a celebrity.
Who are the local and foreign celebrities you’ve had romantic liaisons with?
Huwag mo ng tanungin (Don’t ask anymore).
Who among our Philippine actresses do you consider most beautiful?
I’m often abroad so I don’t know most of them.
Not a single beautiful actress you can name?
I know only Lovi Poe, because she was recently on the cover of a magazine that also featured me in the same issue, that’s all.
I heard you had lots of girlfriends through the years?
Tama na iyan (That’s enough).
Okay, let’s go to the real reason for this interview. You kept denying that DBP granted you a behest loan, but what about Solicitor General Joel Cadiz saying you committed insider trading?
Bullshit!
So you say there was no insider trading by you, DBP executives then and others on Philex stocks?
There was no insider trading… Just read my statements all over the newspapers, I even have full-page ads about their false accusations.
By the way, you’re a friend of MVP and have dealt with him. Would he make a good president of the Philippines?
I think he would, but I don’t think he would ever want to be.
Speaking of the presidency, you claim you’re a victim of persecution in this DBP issue, maybe because you supported Manny Villar’s presidential bid instead of Noynoy?
No, I always support everybody.
So you donated also to Noynoy Aquino?
I don’t give financial contributions during elections.
Are you fronting for the alleged ill-gotten billions of Mike Arroyo and/or his wife Gloria Macapagal Arroyo?
It’s getting a bit tiresome. I already denied that allegation. They keep saying that I’m fronting for Mike. Sabi nga ni Ramon Ang (Ramon Ang in fact said) he fronted for me.
Ramon Ang was your front?
Joke lang iyon ni Ramon Ang (It’s just a joke of Ramon Ang).
So you are not even indirectly a front of Mike Arroyo and GMA for money laundering?
No… I resent and am most upset by false statements like that. Never have I fronted for Mike Arroyo in any transaction, public or private, directly or indirectly… I have never denied that Mike Arroyo is a friend. Mike is a true gentleman who has been my friend long before his wife became president and he will continue to be my friend no matter what.
What about Ashmore Group being a front for the alleged ill-gotten wealth of the Arroyos, since Ashmore does business in developing nations with lots of corrupt politicos?
The speculation that the Ashmore Group, which I represent in the Philippines and which has assets under management in excess of US$50 billion, is somehow involved with me in being a front for Mike Arroyo is simply presposterous! I challenge you or anyone to show proof otherwise.
You were mentioned by Lee Kuan Yew in his interesting book From Third World to First: The Singapore Story, he said he refused your asking for a new $300 to 400 million loan?
After Ninoy Aquino’s assassination in 1983, we were in crisis and we were then running out of money. I was sent by President Ferdinand Marcos in one day to three leaders of ASEAN. There was a plane assigned to me. I left here at 6 a.m. in the morning. The first stop was the Sultan of Brunei, he’s a friend. I told him that I had a personal letter from our president seeking a loan, the Sultan met me and lent us US$150 million. Then I flew to Kuala Lumpur. Dr. Mahathir of Malaysia was one of my original old friends. He told me: “We’re not as rich as Brunei, but I can lend you US$50 million dollars.” Then I flew to Singapore. Before I even started explaining, Lee Kuan Yew told me he knew why I was there, he also already knew how much each of the two other ASEAN leaders had lent, and he said he couldn’t lend us money. Lee Kuan Yew and President Marcos were good friends, and intellectually they’re probably at par with each other.
Why didn’t he lend you money?
Lee Kuan Yew said: “I have seen videotapes of the funeral of Ninoy Aquino. Your country is going through a catharsis.” Honestly, I didn’t know the exact meaning of that word “catharsis,” I had to look up the word in the dictionary later on. He said: “I know what you are here for, what you got from Brunei and from Malaysia. I’m not going to lend you.” I replied to him: “I don’t want to waste your time…” He said, “No, sit down.” We talked for three hours. I left at 7 p.m. He’s not used to people arguing with him; because I disagreed with him that’s why he remembers that meeting with me. At the end of our conversation he said: “Please tell the President sorry I cannot lend you.” And he also said: “I enjoyed talking to you. You’re a very bright young man.”
So Lee Kuan Yew is one leader whom you admire?
Lee Kuan Yew is a very straightforward guy, I greatly admire him. There are many similarities between Lee and his former classmate Robert Kuok.
You’ve met so many colorful personalities…
I’ve had an interesting life.
After all these many years, how would you assess President Ferdinand Marcos?
Marcos was, I believe, a great leader of our country. Critics say he was a dictator, he was a bad guy and all that, but I do not agree. I believe history will judge President Marcos more fairly.
Why do you think so?
Are you old enough to remember EDSA 1? Do you see old videos of that televised scene when his military generals led by Fabian Ver were urging him to attack the protestors on EDSA? President Marcos then said: “You will not fire on the crowds. You will not fire on our own people.” People should put that in perspective. The critics keep saying Marcos was a bad guy, that he destroyed democracy, etc., but to me he will always be a great man.
You knew Marcos well?
I worked closely with him. I not only respect him, but I will also always love that man.
What about accusations that he and his wife amassed ill-gotten wealth through corruption?
Marcos was a simple man. They say he stole money and most especially his cronies. All of that is probably true, but you’ve got to balance that with the fact that he could have been an Assad, a Gaddafi or a Mubarak, leaders who fired at people in the streets. What Marcos said to his generals about never firing on the crowds, that was on TV. It is sad that people forget.
How was Marcos as a boss, was he strict or stern?
Marcos was a very kind-hearted man.
Did you have disagreements with President Marcos?
Of course, I would argue with him a lot, but only in private.
How did you become part of his cabinet? Were you friends?
I didn’t know him. Actually when he invited me to meet him about the possibility of joining his cabinet, my interview was supposed to be only 15 minutes, but it became three to four hours.
So you immediately accepted his offer to join the cabinet?
No.
Why not?
I said to President Marcos: “I can’t join your government, because I’d bring embarrassment to your cabinet.” He asked me why, I told him: “I have a very complicated private life. I told him that aside from my children with my wife, I also have a child with a German girlfriend. President Marcos said: “Those things don’t bother me.”
(Ongpin has two children by his wife, plus a daughter by his German girlfriend, and a son by his Australian girlfriend.)
You were the youngest cabinet official of Marcos?
I was 42 years old then when I joined the cabinet, but the youngest was former Press Secretary Kit Tatad, but he was only one year younger than me.
I heard that the Marcos cabinet was said to be the best in terms of quality of leaders?
There were many outstanding leaders in the cabinet. For example, then Labor Minister Blas Ople, he was an intellectual. I admire him.
I was a student when Ople had a short rift with President Marcos. I think it was because he said there would be an “interregnum” if Marcos passed away and no clear successor. I interviewed him that day in his house, and Ople told me maybe he would just retire in Penang, Malaysia to read and to write the rest of his life.
Why Penang, why not his native Bulacan? He was a nationalist, very well-read, very thoughtful. Ople didn’t even finish college but was brilliant.
Your late brother Jaime “Jimmy” Ongpin was also an achiever like you and served in the cabinet of President Cory C. Aquino as finance secretary. Was there sibling rivalry?
No, never. We both went to Harvard. Do you know that my Chilean/Italian wife and his future wife Maribel were roommates in the US? Jimmy was a year behind me at Harvard. After college, he went to work for Allen & Co., like Mar Roxas… no, my brother brought Mar Roxas to Allen & Co., one of the leading investment banks in New York, very blue chip.
How was it you’re in the Marcos Cabinet when your brother Jimmy Ongpin was an outspoken critic of Marcos?
He felt Marcos was not a good leader of the country. I was high profile in the Marcos government, so the media tried to make us sabong (to clash or duel like in cockfighting).
You say that Marcos was a great leader, but your late brother Jimmy Ongpin said he was a bad leader. Between the two of you, who is correct?
That’s a silly question.
If your late brother was correct, then you are wrong? Your case reminds of the Abad Santos brothers during the time of President Quezon, his justice secretary then was Jose Abad Santos (who would become chief justice and chose death rather than collaborate with the Japanese invaders), and a Communist leader in Central Luzon was his brother Pedro Abad Santos.
My brother Jimmy was just a simple, highly-principled guy. He was a very serious guy.
Are you very different?
The story is told that Jimmy had a black book; his black book was filled with the names and contacts of the best restaurants in the world. I also have my black book, but it is filled with girls (laughs).
Was your brother Jimmy Ongpin right or wrong on President Marcos?
He believed that the country should be governed by another leader.
Why are you close to Gloria Macapagal Arroyo?
GMA, one of the things that is very ironic is that with every past president, I brought in foreign investments. It was in fact during the time of Cory Aquino, whom I knew the least and had met only once, that I brought in the most foreign investments to the Philippines like the Shangri-La hotels.
Other presidents I know like FVR. Erap, I’m very close to, because we grew up together in San Juan. Erap was one president of this country who was unfairly treated. That guy is very popular, people still love him. On GMA, she is one president whom I knew the least.
You were not close to GMA, you have not met her often even socially?
About five times I had met her siguro (maybe) during her nine years as president.
But you don’t deny being close to Mike Arroyo?
Mike Arroyo is a good friend.
Is he very corrupt?
He’s a very nice guy. Everybody is entitled to their own opinion.
You say that the DBP loan to you was not a behest loan, but doesn’t your being close to Mike Arroyo make it believable that the state-owned bank had somehow favored you?
I never borrowed a single cent from government, ever, but only this DBP loan because they asked me… because banks want good borrowers.
But the loan was approved by this government bank in only one day…
You’re not listening. You should let me finish my sentence… I never needed to borrow from them… They made it like… I do not even need their money in the first place. The total amount of financing I organized over a three-year period was approximately P4 billion and I dealt with a total of six banks, in addition to Ashmore.
Some people suspect your investment funds come from the Arroyos.
My business partner is Ashmore Group of London, which has over over US$50 billion in funds.
You protest your innocence and say all these government charges against you are false. Are you discouraged by all these?
No, this is par for the course. I’ve fought many battles before.
Last question, I researched that as a kid you considered becoming a priest?
Yes, after high school, I contemplated going to the seminary to become a Jesuit priest, but I figured it doesn’t work for me, because you have to celibate (laughs).
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