MANILA, Philippines — Put together two intelligent, determined, media-savvy women and the Zonta Club of Makati and Environs’ 50th anniversary, and what happens? You get a groundbreaking podcast for women, about women, and with women on topics that provoke the need for conversation.
I’m a podcast junkie. When Joanne Zapanta-Andrada, a longtime friend, casually mentioned over coffee and crepes one day that she and Marcy Kohchet-Chua had come up with a podcast, I scooted (virtually) over to Spotify to check out the episode list.
What I saw blew me away: topics that once not to be spoken of in polite society, but hidden in the shadows of guilt and shame. What makes it even more remarkable are the brave women who tell their stories, women who are in the eyes of the world accomplished, beautiful, and who have seemingly perfect lives. Yet they come forward with courage. No anonymity here, but just visions to speak their truths, give other women hope, and show the way forward to healing.
Some topics include rape culture with Maritina Romulo, dealing with the aftermath of a daughter’s suicide with Shamaine Buencamino and the challenges and discrimination faced by lesbians in our society with Giney Villar.
Other topics are the reality behind the glamorous world of modelling,with Marina Benipayo; as well as annulment, abuse, third parties, and family entanglements with Judge Lisa Sarmiento Flores. Lastly, how to catch a thief through cybersleuthing with Ann Torres Bichelmeir.
Joanne Zapanta-Andrada, a Zontian for 31 years, is a cum laude alumna of UP, with a Masters Degree in Development Communications. She is a former UNESCO Commissioner of Culture, Former National Governor of the Philippine Red Cross, and a columnist for the Philippine Star. Currently Joanne serves as Project Head of the Zonta Club of Makati and Environs’ Psuchological Center for Sexually Abused Girls and sits on the Board of Trustees of the Philippine Center for Population and Development.
Marcy joined Zonta in July 2019. She has 28 years of experience in the financial industry -- a former traditional banker, she is now a passionate wealth and investments manager with ATR Asset Management. Marcy believes all women should have access to quality education, not just as a source of livelihood, but to participate in building a kinder, more sustainable future uplifting the lives of all members of society. Her entry into Zonta proved fortuitous: the pandemic offered her a challenge to make its 50th year celebration more memorable, by reaching more people and bringing the club into the digital space.
On a humid Sunday afternoon, I spoke to Joanne and Marcy about their revolutionary podcast, and how it has become a catalyst for opening up conversations long overdue. Here's my interview with them:
How did you come up with the idea for this podcast?
Joanne: "We are both members of the Zonta Club of Makati and Environs, a women’s organization that seeks to promote the status of women through service and advocacy. Marcy and I lead communications and we felt that we could do so much more to promote issues about women -- what they think about but are hesitant to talk about. If we could discuss this in a mature and positive manner, we could be able to give the listener some insights on these things that we think about but don’t feel free to discuss. [We felt that by having a stronger presence in the virtual world,] we could bring these issues to the forefront and provoke a discussion – understanding that many things in life can be left open-ended and there are no clear answers, that there would be no easy resolutions or conclusions."
Marcy: "The other impetus was that Zonta Makati was marking its 50th year in April 2021. The whole celebration revolved around the campaign “Her LegaZ”, the footprints left by the Zontians for the advocacy works done by the club. It was the name and theme of our anniversary campaign. This 50th year being a milestone, we not only wanted to celebrate the past but envision what Zonta would be in the future, and who it would champion. Kathleen Francisco, our social media consultant and the show’s producer, said – let’s do a podcast! If we’re going to give voices to women, let’s literally have a voice!"
How was this novel idea received by your fellow Zontians?
J: "We were at first not quite sure how our other members would receive it because our club average is over 70 years of age. It was Important that we get a courageous support from the majority and the current leadership to say, “Go for it, do it, even if the topics are sensitive!
I give all due credit to these women, because for women our age, it would be easy to say yes. Their forward way of thinking, precisely because they are Zontians, is testimony to me that you can be of a different generation, but because you all champion the cause of women, you can be bold enough to allow your colleagues to cross that comfort zone. So I applaud them for being willing to adapt."
J: "One interesting thing that I’d like to point out that it was actually just last month, after Zooming with Marcy for two years, that we finally met in person! I could never understand how anyone could have a strong relationship with someone that they’ve never met in real life. But because we’ve accomplished so much together, our relationship grew online whereas for many, being online interrupted their relationships."
Tell me about the thought process behind the personality and mission of Her LegaZ.
J: "This podcast is all about shining a light on situations society prefers to keep in the dark. Marcy and I agreed – let’s do it in such a way that the listener, feels like they are in a table next to you and can’t help listening to your conversation because it is so interesting. Let them feel like they are eavesdropping on a privileged conversation on something that they’ve always been thinking about. Of course they are really invited to listen because it IS a podcast , but that’s how we wanted our listeners to feel.
I mean, what’s the whole point of giving voice if the things you are hiding you continue to hide? We all have common experiences that we do not feel safe enough to share, but if there is a venue for that, there is a hunger to be part of that conversation. And it’s about time we provoke the conversation."
M: "Usually yung mga taboo, kinikimkim mo yan di ba, and you try to be as strong for yourself as possible. But when you know there are others out there, this gives women strength just by helping them know that they are not alone, whatever they are journeying through."
J: "It is also a perfect venue for us to amplify the stories of strong women. You have to be a strong woman to put your name on your story, a woman with a sense of mission and purpose. It is precisely because they have that burning desire to share that makes the program interesting, and knowing that if you speak out you are also speaking for others."
M: "My insight from our interviews is that the women we invited found a clear life purpose through their life-changing difficulty. One must die to be reborn. It was actually that hurtful painful moment in their lives that made them realize and embrace their purpose and that it was a healthy meaningful way for them to overcome that pain."
Your opening was a wow episode, on rape culture.
J: "Golpe de gulat! Maritina Romulo—[now here] is a woman who is strong enough to talk about – to some degree -- about what happened to her and how it changed her. [She was so eloquent and authentic about her experience.] And to use that as a starting point to talk about rape in our society. She is very very privileged in so many ways and yet what happened to her is what happens to a many women in our country – and the world!"
M: "Followed by GIney, a strong champion of the LGBT community. We wanted a wallop of an opening while remaining very respectful of our guests’ willingness to set boundaries as to how far they were willing to go."
How do you preserve the authenticity of the story while honoring the boundaries of your guests?
J: "There are a couple of things we agreed to. Since these women were courageous enough to lend their voices and names to share experiences that other women wouldn’t, we wanted it to be as comfortable as possible. We wanted to assure them of a safe space. We have a pre- production meeting to discuss the parameters. We ask -- what are you comfortable/not comfortable talking about? We give them guide question so that they have an idea how it will flow, although we are not married to those guide questions. After we do the taping, we give them the edited version for them to approve of before it is released. And this is the reason why each of our guests has been happy with the product of our conversations."
M: "Our guests so far were known to Jo as friends or acquaintances, but I didn’t know them from the start. So Jo sets the tone of how she knows these ladies, but I’m the curious one, so I jump on all the details to perhaps draw out from the guest the back story and context that was already part of the friendship."
J: "[Our guests understand and trust that our purpose is] not to sensationalize their stories. That what they share is not lurid or for gossip, but for information and healing."
Is there a method to how you conduct your interviews?
J: "Our interviews are recorded over zoom, with a technician to ensure the quality of the sound and to edit the pieces together. Taping is done in about a 2-hour session but released over two episodes, to keep it short and digestible. . We come up with the idea, and identify a guest. We have a story structure in the way we go about the interview, but there is room to take a little detour if the story presents. Marcy and I are seasoned communicators, so we put ourselves in the shoes of the listener. A listener wants to feel that a story has structure, and that makes for better comprehension of what is going on."
M: "It feels like the questioning is so natural, because it is; there is an intention that the whole program is really about our guest. We are fully curious and extremely interested to really get to know our guest and what she could be thinking, what she could be feeling, and to really understand her point of view -- and that was the magic formula."
What has the response been to your presentation on such sensitive topics?
J: "The response of Zonta was great, but more than the club, the response from outsiders who reached out to us, emailed us, who have said -- I’ve listened to the episode many times and it has really helped me through a particular situation. So for me if even we were able to help just one person , [this whole exercise] is worth it."
M: "[In my case, I received many reactions from men!] My boss at work has been listening to the podcast regularly; the first thing he said was “WOW, you’re brave!” He used the word brave specifically -- [not just for broaching the topics] but to be able to get the actual project done and sustain it. Another member of the LGBT community was so touched by that particular interview that he shared it with his sphere of influence. As a result I was invited to give a talk to OFWs to take the conversation to the next level. It’s very fulfilling that you are actually reaching folks in various ways."
J: "When we got the members of Zonta to listen to it, they were caught totally by surprise! They were fascinated and asked, how did you direct that discussion, how did you touch on this topic? They found our guests very interesting, and they have since been invited to do other talks for other organizations. [In this way, we feel that our mission to begin difficult conversations has taken on a life of its own.]"
How to you plan to grow the podcast this year -- through Social Media, email subscription, organic word of mouth, or YouTube?
J: "[Our growth] seems to be organic. We were asked to consider YouTube, but we felt the visuals were not necessary [to enhance the content,] so I think we’re pretty good with Spotify. [We felt that having video of our conversations might get in the way, making the guest feel self-conscious about their appearance and perhaps distracting the listener that way as well. Having a disembodied voice helps you concentrate on what is being said rather than the appearance of the person saying it.]"
M: "We didn’t have any number in mind for the how many of our desired audience we wanted to reach. We were in a very experimental mindset and focused on our purpose-- it’s always about the purpose – not about getting someone with a great following -- we never talked about that! We would rather have a very good guest and a truly complex experience rather than continuously churning out episodes. So we were very surprised with the hundreds of downloads we got -- apart from the thousands of people who listened to us via streaming."
What would you say is your most listened to or most reacted to guest/episode?
J: "For me, it was the one of Shamaine Buencamino on the suicide of her daughter. Shamaine’s grief was so palpable -- being an actress, she is a good communicator. Quite a number of woman called me and said, my son is suicidal and I have swept it under the rug, but after listening to Shamaine, I will take it more seriously and not brush it off as an 'adolescent thing.' Another gay acquaintance messaged saying he had listened to that show many times because he was also having suicidal thoughts, and he realized how it would affect those who loved him. On a personal level that was an episode I listened to several times on my own. I guess because I am a mother, and it’s like a wake-up call for me to never take it easy."
M: "Iba the impact of that particular episode. It was a rollercoaster of emotions -- happy moments, but also really deep and emotional moments. At times there was complete silence. I was actually tearing when we did that recording. It was difficult to continue because we were feeling for her."
J: "She was hit on so many levels – not only dealing with her own grief, but also being hit by society for what happened. Even her relatives were accusing her of not giving her daughter enough time, as if she was to blame. So in a way her story didn’t end with the death, in fact that’s where it began."
M: "I love that the conversations are authentic and vulnerable, and the others are informative, like the one with Judge Lisa . [For that one, Jo and I decided to shift perspective -- to talk about a topic] that’s not about the actual person, but to have a guest that can educate the audience."
J: "Judge Lisa was a fountain of information and it’s about a topic – kabits -- that peeves me! It’s an itch I can’t scratch enough! So I was milking it for all that it was worth for all my sisters out there who need to know [how this type of extramarital relationship happens.]
With Giney, I love how she spoke about her experience so calmly. She was so well-informed, because of the pain she went through [enduring] judgement not just from society but from her family. It surprised me in this day and age that people still act that way – but I was very impressed at how she handled it beautifully.
The one about Marina Benipayo, I’ve known her for quite a long time, and I’ll tell you. -- I did not know how bad it was. And to think I knew her! And she would hint to me – because I really admire Marina, I admire her so much, and I would tell her, 'Oh Marina, everyone wants to be like you!' And she would reply, 'If they knew the life of Marina Benipayo, they would not want to be Marina Benipayo.' So there were hints now and then of how difficult life was for her. But it was only during our interview that I realized how bad it was and it upsets me that here was a friend of mine, who was at death’s door, who didn’t even have enough money to get treatment. Her financial situation was so bad, and two sons to take care of, and I didn’t know! On a personal level I felt bad -- I wished so much that I had known. Afterwards, I spoke with her and asked that moving forward, if you’re ever in that situation again, please tell me! It just boggled my mind that I didn’t know!"
M: "And that she was carrying on in her life completely by herself."
J: "And it goes to show that so many people are like that…you think they’re fine but they’re not fine. With Anne Bichelmeier, it was a human interest story that made us realize that there a lot of things we can do on our own if we just research enough."
M: "She was a really motivated woman who told herself: 'Hindi ko papayagan na makalusot ito!' That’s why she was so adamant about catching the culprit -- to come to a resolution with her own self!"
Whats in store for LegaZ this year?
J: "We have some interesting topics in the works -- a famous fragrance distributor with a son who was born with very severe disabilities, but who loved and cared for him for as long as his life allowed it. He recently passed away. So it will be about caring and losing a disabled child – that love of a mother that goes through this grief and how joyful she was in caring for him. Other people would be ashamed and hide him, but no -- she did it with such joy. The gift that this podcast has given me is the privilege of knowing even more these very strong women."
M: "Faces of courage."
J: "And those who happen to be friends of mine, I see in a new light – [I didn’t know this about you, and now I know you more] I hope this podcast will grow and allow us to share stories of even more women like this."
M: "And probably even go beyond the Filipina – but international podcast guests. We just received an acknowledgement from Zonta International, recognizing that the Zonta club of Makati has started an project like this in this podcast format. Literally giving voice to women."
J: "It started as a Zonta. Mission but I think it has grown beyond a club project for us."
Your mission is so strong, your voice is so clear, you have begun a movement -- I believe you will invite more and more people to share their stories.
J: "I believe that despite the gains that women have made in the recent past, it’s still a man’s world. We have to fight for every crumb, and we need to move in solidarity."
M: "In corporate life, making business decisions can be so cut and dried without considering the nuances of relationships within the organization and its effect on the corporate culture. Because it’s the nature of business to only be comfortable with things they can measure -- however, it’s important to remember that it’s a human organization -- and the women particularly in that environment can easily fall victim to not speaking up."
J: "We need to and hope to hear more stories of women going through similar situations. [We need our listeners to say], 'I feel validated, not alone, understood, and empowered.' [ We want to start the conversation, in the hope that more and more women will want to come forward, reclaim their narratives, and stand in solidarity with their sisters.]"
Every Filipina has a story to tell. And her story is her legacy. Her LegaZ is available to listen on Spotify.
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